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Why's the game so unbalanced?

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  • Why's the game so unbalanced?

    No matter how I set my base up to defend Nothing works From an empty base to multipul different setups ALL are just walked over by 3 red and higher in under 3mins Total BS
    Haven't had a defense win in god knows how long to the point of not blamming hackers for what they do. The A.B are way out of balance with every battle losing to a 3 red skulls it seems like it's rigged for certain teams to win with unbelievable AB scores.
    I flat out refuse to spend anymore money on this BS game that favours those who do.
    *
    *

  • #2
    At what level you are, I am at level 57 and I also did not win any defenses, just got opponents of the same level. It does not matter how much you change the base. If the level is high, the base must also be super strong. 👍👍👍👍👍

    Comment


    • #3
      "Nothing works" is not true since you obviously did not try every possible base design strategy. I for example win 90% time defending and I even tried couple of different base designs in the last 2 months

      You also did not provide any screenshot or detail about base designs you tried so we don't really know what did you and did you not try

      People now use sniper tower, AI pathfinding and time exploits to give them even more advantage to defending making the base look almost impossible to beat. Look at my exploit topics I posted you will see what I am talking about. Since this is not against the rules you can use them as well

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Achmed*PC View Post
        No matter how I set my base up to defend Nothing works From an empty base to multipul different setups ALL are just walked over by 3 red and higher in under 3mins Total BS
        Haven't had a defense win in god knows how long to the point of not blamming hackers for what they do. The A.B are way out of balance with every battle losing to a 3 red skulls it seems like it's rigged for certain teams to win with unbelievable AB scores.
        I flat out refuse to spend anymore money on this BS game that favours those who do.
        All you need is this Base Reset option, it costs 200 GOLD.
        Then use all of these exploits that used by almost everyone, time attack exploit, tank trap exploit, split path exploit, also Bombardier has the ability to shoot over low rocks and walls,
        use them to earn unfair advantage.

        First off, watch how these exploits work

        Three defense tricks you (probably) don't know
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U75_ZNd1-Yo

        then take a look why tank trap blocking is overpowered

        Tank Trap blocking is overpowered!
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aY3yzUK75A

        and last, borrow some ideas from experienced players how to build your own base, you can also copy the entire base layout.

        The Best Defense Tricks & Base Layouts
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEtdWer-6J0

        Generally a base with split path (even better a triple deep split path),
        400 build points (5:30 attack time),
        tank traps as barriers
        and Bombardiers shooting over low rocks and walls
        it is an unbeatable base for 99.99% of GU! players.

        I'm sure GU! team will fix someday all of these exploits like did with sandbag blocking, HQ blocking etc etc
        but until then you can earn unfair advantage to get defense wins/rewards.

        http://forums.gunsupgame.com/forum/n...er-update-info
        GUNS UP! 20-12-16 Server Update Info
        • Sandbag Exploit Fix
          • Sandbags no longer block unit pathing. The original intent for sandbags was only to give cover to units, not to act as a second set of harder-to-destroy walls.
        Last edited by odytsak; 01-24-2018, 07:50 AM.
        http://www.youtube.com/odytsak
        http://twitter.com/odytsak
        PS4/Steam: odytsak

        Comment


        • MonsterLoad*PC
          MonsterLoad*PC commented
          Editing a comment
          The problem is I can't buy gold. Another glitch with Steam. The Steam Wallet never appears. Now at level 50, I barely take in enough munitions to cover the cost of buying attack cards. I no longer have any munitions to upgrade my base. My only option is to buy ammo perk cards, which arent many because I don't have any munitions boost cards. I'm not winning anything over 2 skulls. Luckily I've got a good base and win 75% of those. You guys forget how it's like to be in the lower level bases with no munitions coming in to cover upgrades.
          Last edited by MonsterLoad*PC; 01-25-2018, 10:49 AM.

      • #5
        A very long time ago I asked one of my PsN friends why he only attacked 2 whites and 1 white skulls? His answer was BECAUSE THEY DERSERVE IT. At the time I didn’t understand but now I do. Low levels need to be thought to be humble.

        Comment


        • #6
          I want to follow-up more from the responses to your post already given about exploits affecting the balance of the game(I’ve discussed many times about issues and effects of “balancing” from other posts), but for now, since it has been mentioned here already, I want to discuss the impact the Base Reset option had in affecting not only balance issues, but also how it has affected the whole game.

          The Base Reset option, which was a heavily requested(for some time, lots of focus was seemingly on the idea of “if the player asked for it, they might just get it”, which I found it misleads player expectation) feature asked of by the players, sped up particular balancing issues with the game. It also unbalanced the mind share of how the game is to be played(“Is there a wrong or right way to play?”) with issues of adapting to changes to the game.

          It also went against the idea of “permanency”, which I thought was a core concept to the game, where it was your decisions that ultimately decided your path in this game.

          Base variety was not as extreme an issue as it is now, but the option to reset your base created its own problems with misconceptions of the best ways to create a base. Also with Base Reset, variety of bases would decrease at a faster rate as soon as “best” or the new go-to base setup is discovered.

          Base reset also exposes flaws(attack vs defend dynamics, AI behavior, limit settings, etc.) in the actual gameplay design of GU! more, which was already flawed to begin with(“technical debt” and bugs).

          The game is unbalanced because there was no balance(maybe it was before?). You, the player, the community, are helping to figure out that balance.

          Comment


          • #7
            There are many of us who do not use any of the exploits listed above by odytsak and others, not even one, no timer exploit, no split or triple paths, no tank traps posing as walls, no copying and pasting of other bases and yet we still win defending against triple red skulls. We still win and lose everyday, it's not the end of the world and when it comes right down to it, it's just a game. Take a break, clear your head and the game will be here later when you return.

            Comment


            • #8
              This has been a nice, civil discussion. Thank you for the videos Ody. We are taking all of this in.

              Comment


              • #9
                So while I do agree with col1162 that many of us do not use the pointers that odystak has posted. I don't know if I would necessarily classify them as "exploits". They are more like tricks, and for every trick there is a counter trick.

                Lets talk about some popular tricks and go over some of the ways to counter them.

                1) The Ol' shielded tower in the front of the base trick. The idea here is to place shielded by wall towers up front so that the attacker's truck can't move forward. This forces your opponent to use his focus fires or go make it much harder to reinforce his units.

                This may seem powerful? But is it really all that powerful? First of all the opponent has used 12 walls in the video example to create this hazard. That's 12 less walls you'll have to deal with when you reach the actual heart of their base. And that can actually work in your favor.

                The Solution - Focus Fire comes immediately to mind, but its not the only thing you could do. Spray units like the Chemist can fire between cracks, they don't necessarily need a focus fire to destroy the tower. The best way to handle this situation though would be to have some Colonel's. A Colonel will target the tower, allowing your other units to just shred it. As for using focus fire, the type of units you use are very important, some units fire over walls like Rockeeter, Bombardier, Riot, etc. They'll be able to easily take out the sniper towers but they won't take down the walls. Conversely units like Machinegunner, Commando, and Assualt will shred everything. They will be far less effective though against labyrinth type Bombardier bases that use the natural environmental obstacles such as rocks to their advantages. In these situations, lobbing units will be much more effective.

                2) Using Bombardiers, environmental obstacles, and walls to prevent your opponent from attacking while you annihilate them.

                The Solution - See above. Lobbing Units are your friend. The Colonel and Chemist may be your friend, depending on the layout and positions of their troops. Bombardiers despite being powerful are slow to spawn, so you should have the numbers advantage here. They rely heavily on their barrage stun which is why if you run the Steady Perk and Tactical Boots, you completely neutralize their ability and therefore cripple their effectiveness. Put Decoys between walls where there are two squads to hit them both or use focus fire with lobbing units to wipe them out like cockroaches. If the timer is low, than the speed perk may be helpful to have as well as fast deploy. Munitions can be an issue in low timer bases making perks like Minimum Wage and 3,000 or 2,000 munitions cards useful as well. Which perks should you use? Well that's up to you really, whatever you feel is in your best interest. I think the most important one though here is going to be Steady.

                3) Tank Traps as back up walls.

                The Solution - Tank Traps are a tricky thing and something that hopefully gets patched. The best way to deal with them is to drop a missile on them or perhaps target a wall or structure behind them and hope they get destroyed in the hail of bullets. This works best with your non-lobbing high damage units like Assualt, Commando, Machinegunner, etc.

                4) Split path or labyrinth bases

                The Solution - These can be extremely easy or annoying to deal with. The trick here is to let your units spread out in the maze and then focus fire ahead somewhere, the further the better. With your units spread out they will all be firing in different directions and hopefully shred the base. It can get pretty chaotic, especially if you're using flamers. But the end result generally is that the opponent by using split path has made things much easier for you to decimate his base.

                This strategy can and does fail though. The important thing to remember when doing it is to know your units. Machine gunners, Assualts, Commandos all fire straight and shred everything but are stopped by environmental obstacles. Lobbing units may prematurely take out the actual target before you want them to, leaving the enemies base intact. So you really have to know your units and therefore where and when to drop those focus fires. Colonel will target nearby units and structures, so he can be quite useful as well in taking down the walls that stand between you and those units.

                Another tactic would be to rally and then blast a path through. Finally having tactical boots or the boots or speed perk can be crucial in these types of bases as you can almost always count on the enemy running some barb wire.


                Don't let yourself get locked into one mindset. Every base is different and so therefore should your loadout be. Use the right tools for the job. If its alliance battles, then just try and make a well rounded squad that can handle different scenarios. If you think everyone is running Bombardier, then skew your loadout towards handling Bombardier. Its not necessary for example, to have Steady on all your units. Just having it on one or two of the important ones can make a big difference.


                Comment


                • #10
                  @Kenpo_Kid69,

                  You basically described how to adapt to the game, which I’m sure there are players who have done the same.

                  All tactics in this game can change meaning depending on experience and perspective, especially since this game is in continuous development. It’s when changes are made to accommodate, adjust or remove certain tactics is when you begin realizing the legitimacy of such tactics. In this case, these strategies, or tactics, or tricks, hints or tips can become labeled as glitches, exploits, or even called cheats. This is where tweaks, tuning, and balancing come into play in addressing “questionable tactics” whether it be making them less effective because they were probably overly effective, making them part of the game because it can’t be properly fixed or maybe adds additional depth to the game, or remove them entirely because it’s a negative aspect to the game or it’s not part of the developers vision.

                  Now what happens if these “tricks” were unknown or not yet discovered by the community or only a select few players know about specific “tricks”? Since GU! is technically a competitive game with the concept of PvP and leaderboards, “tricks” play an important role in fostering that competitive aspect to the game. Since this game also has a large puzzle element to it as well, from figuring out how to defeat bases or figuring out how to survive in CPU Defend(new CPU Defend mode has a somewhat different focus, but you can still think of CPU Defend with same approach), etc., “tricks” are important to creating a sort of mystique or an engagement with the player to discover them for themselves, which in turn can influence community building, such as with the sharing of “tricks”, to bring interest towards the game.

                  What would happen if all the “tricks” were all known already, especially in the beginnings of GU! with a still growing player base? What if before live release, there was an accepted best way to play, but it actually wasn’t? These are the kinds of issues that should be dealt with in the earlier stages of development, but the game is in continuous development so such issues can continue to occur.

                  For players, “tricks” can highlight depth to the game, which can motivate players to become better at the game or encourage them to discover more or show off skill and mastery to the game.

                  For devs, especially to the type of game GU! is as a free-to-play or games-as-a-service game, “tricks” affect more than just gameplay elements. They have to balance business aspects as well as building a community to continue to play their game. Some “tricks” can have negative side effects to the development of the game where dev/creative vision clashes with player feedback, especially when “tricks” mean or become labeled differently from different players, which the devs will have final decision in determining the meaning of a “trick”. Being in “continuous development” makes issues with “tricks” even more difficult to deal with.

                  What I want to explain or hopefully get players and maybe even some devs to understand is that the foundations of this game’s “balance” was suspect or unreliable(maybe at one point it was balanced before player feedback became a consideration, but even before all these updates that added or changed the game to how it is now, it was still not balanced) and balancing what we have now is for keeping the game fresh enough for the players to continue to play while the devs figure out what to do with this game.

                  Your solutions, just like the many other players that share hints, tips and tricks, help players adapt to how the game currently is, but “adapting” to a game like GU! though has a different meaning when you consider how devs have to adapt to how players play(in a basic example, there use to be camouflage option customization for units, but since players barely used it, the devs decide to remove the option from the game, and in a more complex example, what happens if players don’t respond favorably to a particular mechanic in game or devs find players using mechanics not how they expected them to be used?).

                  There’s a reason why players had to eventually figure out more clever ways(which can lead to exploits or the discovery of other unrelated effects) just to get base building to work more efficiently at “defending” because the “attacking” mechanics have always been more effective. Those players that can’t overcome those exploited defenses could even figure out more clever ways(possibly more exploits, or “cheats”, because of the condition of the game) to defeat them. The devs see(when aware or whenever it’s brought to their attention) this and now do their best to allow, adjust or remove these formerly unintended mechanics to make sense for the game moving forward because this is how the game is played now.

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